Cultivating an Inclusive Culture

The honest introspection and continuous work for a better team

Reconsider Diversity

The typical approach to diversity in corporate environments can usually be summed up in two ways: lazy and superficial.

To be fair, diversity is a difficult word to put into action. Most attempts to do so will probably end up feeling superficial. For example, companies often ironically state that they’re “committed to diversity” when the word itself is pretty noncommittal. The ambiguous nature of diversity means it can be interpreted in a number of different ways.

That laxity is an allowance for laziness. Initiatives based on diversity are notorious for having vague, or non-existent, standards and accountability. Diversity has become a clichéd ideal versus an agent for change.

Diversity is a difficult word to put into action.

Attempts to execute diversity in a more specific way can also be problematic. Companies confronted with unfavorable demographic numbers and public pressure to do better find it easy to reach for tokenism as a quick-fix reaction to being called out and as a way to gain brownie points. The addition of individuals from minority and underrepresented groups has become the preferred way for organizations to portray improvement.

When someone is perceived as a diversity hire, that label and perception of them as other (i.e. not like me) will be a difficult roadblock for everyone involved to overcome in order to work effectively as a team. Inevitably, the burden is placed on that individual to demonstrate their sameness, perpetuating the common expectation that individuals fall in line and assimilate in order to belong. So instead of an organization evolving from the unique contributions each person can offer, things remain essentially the same.

#WOCinTech

In the article Stopping the Exodus of Women in Science, the Harvard Business Review describes the science, technology, and engineering fields as the “Alamo — a last holdout of redoubled intensity” when it comes to machismo in corporate settings. If that statement seems hyperbolic, consider that over half of highly-qualified women in STEM positions — 56 percent— eventually leave the industry. The top reasons cited for their exit? Inhospitable work cultures and isolation.

Despite statistics like this and well-documented personal accounts that indicate an environment of intolerance and aggression, tech companies commonly describe their culture as the complete opposite — open and accepting.

In Carlos Buenos’ observation of tech’s startup culture, Inside the Mirrortocracy, he offers an explanation for why there’s often such a disparity between a group’s perception of itself and the realities experienced by those that exist there:

The problem with gathering a bunch of logically-oriented young males together and encouraging them to construct a Culture gauntlet has nothing to do with their logic, youth, or maleness. The problem is that all cliques are self-reinforcing. There is no way to recalibrate once the insiders have convinced themselves of their greatness.

After adopting the abstract ideal of diversity as a value, a group can get the premature satisfaction that their awareness also equals progress. The pursuit to “increase diversity” usually shifts the focus outward for a solution and encourages the mindset that we should eventually arrive at a certain point of achievement. Both of those popular approaches makes it too easy for companies to continue avoiding the real issue.

They aren’t forced to confront the biased ways of thinking and behaving ingrained in their culture that have created and sustained such a monolithic environment.

If a company truly wants to be a place that includes people that aren’t all alike, they’ll need to create an inclusive culture. That will require an honest look inside themselves to identify the parts of their culture that prevent inclusivity.

Recently, companies have seemed comfortable tackling unconscious bias in hiring. On the other hand, they seem unwilling to acknowledge the presence of that very same bias in their everyday operation.

There is no known way to avoid unconscious or implicit bias.

In fact, it thrives because you’re unaware that it’s happening. That’s why relying on just the good intentions of treating everyone in an inclusive way will always fall short. You will need to make specific plans to combat biased behavior.

The work of inclusivity, like our persistent biases, should be constant and never-ending. Your entire team will need to become invested in doing the day-in and day-out work.

Inclusivity: We Want You Here

Being inclusive means being consistent about communicating the value of every person participating with our actions. The foundation of those actions should be built on a collective mindset that goes beyond tolerating differences, to truly appreciating them. That appreciation is fostered with the recognition and treatment of differences as the asset they are to a team.

When differences are celebrated, everyone on the team will feel safe, supported, and valued being themselves. The freedom of no longer needing to be a certain way in order to be accepted is a major key. Communication is open and honest, instead of guarded. Interactions with each other are earnest and real, instead of strategic. This kind of communication will elevate your work. Here are the actions you can take to make it clear that each person is welcome to participate and their contributions are valued.

Safety to Speak Up

Everyone on your team should feel safe voicing their concerns and questions. As with other parts of life, rules or guidelines aren’t enough to produce a safe environment. An open door policy in your employee handbook won’t cut it.

True safety begins when we take steps to protect what we value. If you value hearing everyone’s voices, start by genuinely supporting one another when an issue is raised. Support isn’t about coddling or other empty gestures. It’s simply meeting someone’s voice with respect and thoughtful consideration.

Beyond supporting those that speak up, everyone has the responsibility of being diligent stewards of the environment. Sometimes that means stepping up to advocate for someone else and that requires us to stop being silent.

Violent responses to someone speaking up is what makes an environment unsafe. Common responses include intimidation, retaliation, or shaming. Reasons like self-preservation, obliviousness, or agreement with the offending party make it easy to do nothing when someone’s safety to speak up is threatened with violent communication.

Silence reinforces fear to everyone, including yourself, and perpetuates avoidance. That can lead to disastrous outcomes when there’s a glaring problem no one feels comfortable addressing.

It shouldn’t feel like an act of bravery for a teammate to say when something doesn’t feel right. It should feel like everyone’s expected duty.


Gain New Perspectives

Making speaking up a healthy and normal part of your culture is just the start. Listening is paramount. It’s no good encouraging people to speak, if we aren’t willing to listen.

If you’re quick to dismiss or invalidate thoughts and experiences that don’t mirror your own, you’re depreciating the value of your team.

Diverse teams perform better because of their access to an abundant and varied supply of thoughts, ideas, and approaches. Recognize and utilize the invaluable resources found in each other!

Go into conversations with lots of curiosity and the intention to discover something you hadn’t considered before. During the course of that discussion, you can decide on the best way to move forward as a group. In every discussion you have as a team, don’t just say that questions and differing viewpoints are appreciated. Watch out for exclusion and bias within those discussions as well. Women often report that what they say needs to be repeated or affirmed by someone else in order for it to be heard.

The point of discussions like these isn’t about changing minds or determining who’s right. You’re gaining a new perspective, not sacrificing your own.

Make Information Easily Accessible

In an effort to avoid red tape, tech companies in particular can be averse to written policies or guidelines for operations. That approach allows bias to go unchecked. It makes inequitable treatment more likely to occur and harder to point out and defend against.

That’s especially true when it comes to how performance is measured. In the absence of clear and consistent standards, success at a meritocracy becomes an uncertainty that’s dependent upon judgement.

Documenting your processes not only keeps you objective, it keeps your team empowered and well-educated.

Sharing what you know with everyone is a step toward being transparent with one another. Sometimes, information just naturally stays within the confines of a certain team, group of people, or person. Documentation makes any holes in your process obvious when it may not have been otherwise. It helps dissolve information barriers opens the flow of information.

That flow of information inevitably leads to a greater level of connectedness. Connecting and building relationships across workplace boundaries, for example, with someone from another team, location, or seniority level, is a great way to counteract exclusivity within an organization.

Internal mentorship and sponsorship initiatives are credited with reducing the likelihood of burnout and increasing employee engagement and retention.

Illustration: Ashley Bowe

We Make Each Other Better

Focusing on inclusivity will force your team to evaluate if your actions honor the existence of everyone there. That question can’t be answered with words or by a single person.

It can only be answered in the mindfulness reflected in our actions every day.

Yes, it is constant work that requires taking the time to be generous with empathy and thoughtfulness. That work doesn’t hinder productivity, though — it drives it.

When your differences are no longer points of contention, they become a celebrated strength. When you choose to uplift each other with respect and support, it elevates your interactions and, as a result, your work.

It emphasizes one of the best parts of belonging on a team: We’re all in this together.


I’d love to hear your thoughts! What steps have your company or organization taken to be more inclusive? Let me know on Twitter or in the comments below.

Our final episode of The Distance

Stay tuned for our new podcast!

Illustration by Nate Otto

Lily Liu was 16 years old when a talent scout approached her at a department store. She started her career as a model, but found her true calling behind the scenes, first representing her three daughters and then opening her own talent agency. For Lily, who’s spent her career working for opportunities for Asian and Asian-American talent, the issue of representation has taken on a special resonance.

This is our final episode of The Distance! Thank you for following along and sharing our stories these last few years. The episodes will remain online if you’d like to revisit them or share them with a friend who didn’t catch the show’s original run. We also hope you follow us to our new show: The Rework Podcast.


Transcript

WAILIN: When Lily Liu was 16 years old, she was shopping with her mother at a department store when a talent scout approached them. Lily and her mother had recently immigrated to Chicago from Japan, and her mother didn’t speak English.

LILY LIU: The scout handed a business card to my mother and she didn’t know what it was about, so she nodded and said, “Thank you,” and that was it. There no conversation between them. My mom was always supportive with whatever I did. We decided to make a phone call, and immediately the person who gave me the card responded favorably in setting up the appointment. And from there, things changed. It was interesting because there was what was called a round sheet, a list of photographers and their phone numbers, which we don’t do anymore, and we were expected as the model to make the phone call, make the appointment, make our rounds, and introduce ourselves and hoping they would, you know, remember you.

One of the photographers that I remember said to me, “Why do you want to do this? You’re short and you’re Asian.” And it was very disappointing and I said, “Oh, I don’t know. I think it’d be fun, and it’s not something I would do as a career, but I’d like to give it a go.”

WAILIN: Welcome to The Distance, a podcast about long-running businesses. I’m Wailin Wong. It’s the fifty-eighth and last episode of The Distance. I’ll have more to say about that at the end of the episode, plus you’ll hear a teaser for the new show we’re working on, but today we have one last story about a long-running business. It’s the story of Lily Liu, a former model who today runs Lily’s Talent Agency in Chicago. She’s devoted the last 35 years to helping other people get noticed, especially people who aren’t well represented in popular culture.

MERISSA: The Distance is a production of Basecamp. I’m Merissa, a support team lead at Basecamp. Basecamp is the better way to run your business. It’s an app for communicating with people and organizing projects and work. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by email, chat and meetings, give Basecamp a try. Sign up for a 30-day free trial at basecamp.com/thedistance.

WAILIN: So Lily Liu, at 16 years old, had just been asked by a photographer, “Why would you want to be a model if you’re short and Asian?” She said it seemed fun and she wanted to try it.

LILY: It was an honest answer and a couple days later, he actually gave me a phone call and said there was a client of his who was looking for an Asian model for the cover of a hair magazine. Evidently, this client had been looking all over for an Asian woman with a certain face and length of hair that he thought would be perfect. And so I went to the place and he came in and he said, “Oh, you know, your hair is much too long. I want someone with chin-length hair.” And I said, “You want me!” Because that’s exactly what I have.

WAILIN: That’s when Lily took off the wig she was wearing, and her natural length was just right.

LILY: That was actually my first job, and it turned out to be a big job because it was the cover of a magazine. The agency was really pleased with how quickly things started moving for me that she signed me up as an exclusive talent and that was it. They all asked me—I’m too short to be a model. I explained, “I can make everything else around me look larger.” I did a lot of electronic things, like I would sit next to a TV or stand next to a TV or furnitures. I was always the girl for the Sealy mattress. I did a lot of hair magazines, I did a lot of hair products like L’Oreal. When I started modeling, I was the rare Asian model. I was with models who were tall and thin and blonde and blue eyes. To me, they were just gorgeous. I think when I saw them, I started losing confidence with myself. I’m wondering, why did they select me for this role when I’m actually modeling with all these beautiful models? And they were quite successful because they had portfolios and they came even from all over the country.

WAILIN: This was the 1960s, and there weren’t a lot of women that looked like Lily. This created an additional challenge in an industry that could already be pretty cruel, as Lily found out when she competed in a pageant called Miss Photo Flash.

LILY: I was the top ten, but I was also the shortest. And one of the things that we had to go to was doing some interviews, and my language was really poor. It was all broken English and so I couldn’t communicate well. Whatever answer that I responded probably didn’t translate in the correct way so I got that rejection, but it wasn’t just that. Some of the girls in the top ten made a comment to me about my nationality because I’m Chinese and Japanese, so they were calling me names and said something that was very political and that I got it for whatever reasons. And I found that to be very hurtful. Though at the same time, there was one special girl, I think she was also top 10—didn’t make it but, she came to the side and she comforted me. And she said, this girl has a reputation of putting everybody down.

As far as the rejection for me, I think I’ve learned to toughen up because when I came to this country, I was bullied by other kids. I had to stay strong. On the first day of school, I was running to make I wasn’t late and I fell flat on the cement and my face was scraped with all these scratches and when I went home, my mother always believed Vaseline was miracle, like miracle cream, so she put Vaseline all over my scratches and told me I needed to walk to school because education was very important in my culture. So I went the first day of school with Vaseline and scratches all over my face and I think that started the bullying. I think the kids looked at me differently. It’s so hurtful when kids are looking at you, not just because you’re Asian, different, shiny face, scratches, can’t speak the language. They would call me FOBs, fresh off the boat, go back home, go back home. And these were kids that would tell me in school and I would be so sad. And I didn’t even know what FOB meant at the time. I went home and then I was explained why. So it was hurtful. I had two brothers who were always protecting me and making sure when I would go home crying, they would stay after school and they would have a confrontation with those kids who bullied me. I think I grew up feeling like there are people like that, so if they’re mean to you, it could be not a rejection on yourself, but they have the problem. I remember when I started the business, being an Asian and female owner, there were a lot of comments made that I didn’t have the experience to start a talent agency. And I think I used that and said, you know what? I’m gonna make it. I take it as if that I want to show them I’m not gonna give up.

WAILIN: Lily modeled through college and the early years of her marriage. She booked a national commercial for Jovan perfume and used the money from that gig to pay for their honeymoon. But she was realizing that she didn’t want to be in front of the camera anymore.

LILY: There were so many models that I thought, they should do this with their hair, they should do this with makeup. When I started modeling, I was 16. I think by the time i was 23, I wanted to be behind the scenes. I wanted to be an agent. All the pageant people, they would come to me, asking me to teach them to walk, and their makeup, and what dresses they should select. In the pageant world, people talk and they’ll say, “You’ve got to take a little private class from Lily. She doesn’t charge much, she’ll do the best she can to at least place somewhere in the top placement.”

WAILIN: And then Lily had her first child, a daughter. She started modeling at just three months. Then came two more daughters, and Lily started them in the business even earlier, as newborns.

LILY: It got to be a point where they would all get bookings on the same day, and it would be not necessarily all in the same place. The clients were so nice, they got to know me really well enough. They’ll say, “Just leave the kids—your kids are well behaved and just come right back,” so I would leave more the older kids that I knew would be okay, but they were friends with the stylists and the art directors and the photographers. It was like a family. At that time, you could do that. Nowadays, we discourage parents from bringing additional kids unless the clients request for them.

WAILIN: Managing her children’s careers gave Lily enough of a foundation to start her own agency in 1982. And although it had been decades since she booked her first modeling job, there still weren’t that many Asian faces in print ads or television commercials, let alone pop culture like TV and film. Lily saw it as her job to recruit more diverse talent.

LILY: When my kids were born, you still didn’t see a lot of Asian models, so whenever they wanted an Asian model, they knew: Call Lily. And I would be on set and I would meet other models and they would say, “Do you accept other people, other models? And I said yes. That’s how my portfolio grew, starting with my three daughters in the business, and then growing because I was in an environment where I would meet other models and I would end up representing them. Having Asian models in the business was very difficult. And when I started this business, I actually had my mentality focused in saying, “Well, you know what? It was a success for myself and my daughters. I’m going to represent and brand myself as an agency having the most Asian models.” I knew better that I couldn’t just stick with Asian models because you know, obviously they’re not going to be booking Asian models every day, so of course I had others, but I wanted to make sure that all the Asian communities, or at least majority of the Asian communities, knew I had an agency and that my goal was to try and get as many qualified Asians on my roster. And then eventually I developed my agency as the best child agency so I started representing the children and then from there, I started to focus on adults and now, we have about 50/50 adults and kids.

I really I hope that I made a difference because I think when they needed Asian talents, before they couldn’t get it in Chicago, so they would end up flying in models from LA. A lot of that happened, even New York. But now I think I made a difference in that, if there was a Chicago casting or Chicago booking, they can go to Lily’s and book the Asian kids or Asian models because I had so many of them and if I didn’t, I would go to the Chinese Chamber of Commerce or I would contact my friends in the community, they would have a bunch of kids. It’s the resources that you know. You make sure that you have enough for the demand. And that’s what happened. I remember one time I needed senior citizens, so I went to the Chinatown and they had a senior citizen home and they needed about a dozen Chinese ladies for this one booking and they said, “We don’t know how to get a ride there.” So I with my friends, we picked them up at the center and we brought them and we filled out the voucher. And they didn’t understand about the payment schedule, that they get paid after we get paid, so I just went ahead and paid them, you know, minus our agency fee, and they were so happy. And any time they needed Asian senior citizens, they knew they can contact me and I would go straight there to the senior citizen home. And they were all so happy because they would be made up with their makeup and the hair and beautiful. And I would always ask them, “Do you mind getting a little Polaroid snapshots of them? Because you’re making them so happy.” And so they would get this Polaroid picture, and I don’t know if it was really the money or the Polaroid they were really so happy about, but it really made a difference to them.

WAILIN: Lily’s Talent Agency has been around for 35 years now, placing kids and adults in commercials, print ads and voiceover parts. Thanks to an uptick in TV shows being filmed in Chicago, like Empire and Chicago Fire, there are more opportunities now for local actors. Even so, her experience in the industry shows that when it comes to media representation, progress is incremental. Here’s just one data point from Hollywood: The movie The Joy Luck Club, based on Amy Tan’s novel about four Chinese American women and their mothers, came out in 1993. There has not been a major studio-backed live-action movie with a majority Asian American cast since then. And even when there are parts for actors or models of color, there can be pitfalls. Remember that Jovan perfume commercial that Lily booked when she was a college student? Here’s the part she was cast for.

LILY: I was supposedly the concubine of this man, an Asian man, but when a man at that age wears that musk, Jovan musk for male, they can get this beautiful lady.

WAILIN: It’s less likely that you would see that kind of concubine storyline in a TV commercial now — and if you did, it would probably be met with a barrage of Internet outrage and public shaming, So maybe that’s progress. But every once in a while, Lily’s actors encounter situations where they’re not comfortable, and it’s her job to look out for their interests.

LILY: I had a Japanese actor confirm a booking, but when he realized the script was actually mocking the Asian culture and delivering with the heavy accent—which was not a problem, but when it’s mocking and putting down in a very negative way, even though the money was there, he said, “You know, I’m sorry. I didn’t receive the script before. It was very general. I apologize.” We understood, I mean, you know, and we explained that to the casting agency and I’m sure that it went to somebody else, because it was part of the script, but certainly our actors do tell us, so they will come back and report to us what’s actually happened and if they’re not comfortable. Or if it’s a scene where their child is in and there’s a lot of profanity involved, the parents would say, “You know, I’m sorry, but this is not something that I would be comfortable with my children.” And we have to really respect them because if we don’t, they’re not gonna do a good job and it’s not what the casting director wants anyways.

WAILIN: There’s an old Hollywood cliche, never work with animals or children. Lily took on the challenge of representing children because she believed the industry needed more models that looked like her daughters. Today her agency is so well-established that aspiring talent come to her seeking representation, but Lily still likes to approach strangers while she’s grocery shopping or eating out.

LILY: I actually had a situation a couple weeks ago, when I was at a restaurant with my family and I saw this really good looking guy with a very nice-looking date or whoever it might have been. But it was the guy that I was interested in so it was awkward, but my daughter and my grandsons, they were saying, “Go ahead, Paw Paw.” Paw Paw is grandma in Chinese, and so I went to the table across and I said hello to the lady first and I said, “Excuse me, I have a talent agency and right now we’re scouting male models with his type of look. Do you mind if I gave my agency card? I’m here with my grandsons and my daughter.” And I pointed to her. She said, no, not a problem, and I gave it to him. But I think it’s always important, when you’re making the introduction, that you respect the person they’re with so that she’s not looking down and thinking, well why didn’t I get the call? Now, I haven’t gotten a call yet. But it’s something I do all the time, is scouting. If I go grocery shopping, if I’m at any activities, I always have my business cards and I’m passing them out because you never know

WAILIN: The Distance is produced by Shaun Hildner and me, Wailin Wong. And I like I mentioned earlier, this is the last episode of The Distance. We’re launching a new show called Rework, which will broaden the scope of the stories we tell. On The Distance, we featured businesses that have been running for 25 years or more without taking outside investment like venture capital. A lot of the business owners we profiled also talked about stuff like growing slow and staying small, so we wanted to do a show looking at some of those principles too. We’re going to play a teaser for Rework after this episode, so please check that out, and make sure to subscribe to Rework on Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, or wherever you listen.

We’ve had an amazing time making The Distance and I wanted to say a big thank you to all the business owners that shared their stories with us. Everyone was so generous with their time and we learned a lot from them. Also thanks to Nate Otto for doing our illustrations and to all of our listeners for your support. I loved reading your emails and tweets and meeting you in person. And to everyone who wrote in with suggestions of businesses to feature on The Distance, I put them all in a Google spreadsheet and I’m sorry I couldn’t get to them all. You might still hear some of them on Rework, so stay tuned. And now, here’s a preview of Rework, the new show from Basecamp.

Time to toss resumes on the rejection pile

Ten years ago, I was unemployed. For fifteen months I tried and failed to find a job. I scoured the internet, the newspapers, asked friends, acquaintances, strangers for introductions or hints at where to find somewhere.

After a while, it was hard not to take the rejections personally, to value myself less with each “sorry, we’ve decided to go with someone else” or “we’re looking for someone with more experience”. To burn through savings, face the mounting debt and poverty and think that I deserved it.

To despair.

Well-meaning friends, advisors at the local Job Center and internet sites would give the same advice.

Focus on your resume.

Take the time to tweak your employment history here, edit your interests there, adjust your presentation to suit the company you are applying to. Tell a compelling story which makes it easy for the company to hire you for that job. It all makes sense that this is the way to go if you are going to be successful at landing an interview.

There’s an unchallenged assumption at the heart of this well-meant advice. That the resume is the best tool to market your skills, and no application is
complete without one. For many people, that assumption is actively harmful.

A resume is an effective delivery method for bias.

Take this study by Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan, which discovered that white-sounding names received 50% more callbacks. Or perhaps this study by Devah Pager, Bruce Western and Bart Bonikowski:

black applicants were half as likely as equally qualified whites to receive a callback or job offer. In fact, black and Latino applicants with clean backgrounds fared no better than white applicants just released from prison.

Terence Tse, Mark Esposito and Olaf Groth discovered that racial bias isn’t the only form of bias in play when assessing resumes.

CVs have led recruiters to focus too much on grades, university reputations, and prior work experience. The problem with these hiring criteria is that they’re biased toward applicants from more wealthy backgrounds. These families usually have better connections and networks, can provide better education opportunities, and can afford to pay reputable universities’ tuition fees. In addition, children who have grown up in the upper echelons of society are also much more used to the social norms that guide successful “acceptable” behavior

This bias works even if you know about it.

A resume is optimized to make it easy for hiring managers and recruiters to eliminate candidates. There’s a whole market of applicant tracking software designed to automate the process of easily discarding candidates which don’t fit certain criteria, based solely on their resume.

A resume is ineffective at finding the best employees.

There’s an excellent essay by Reginald Braythwayt, I don’t hire unlucky people, which includes this fable:

Bertram smiled. He grabbed a pile of resumés from his desk, then started dealing the resumes out, first one back onto his desk, second into the recycle bin, third onto his desk, fourth into the recycle bin. When he was finished, he had thrown half of the resumes away. “It’s simple.” Bertram told Ernestine. “Just don’t hire anybody who’s unlucky.”

I’d hope that businesses take the search for talent more seriously than that. And yet, we look at a resume as proof that past success leads inevitably to future success. If you want to find the best people, you have to dig deeper than that. What someone has done is not as interesting as what they are capable of doing. Hire for the person they’ll become:

A lot of future perfect people are stuck in current mediocre positions. They just haven’t had the chance to do their best work.

So what do we do instead?

I’m not suggesting that if you are looking for a job, you should abandon your resume. Work the system, send it in. Get paid. The onus for this change lies with employers. If we’re serious about finding the best candidates, whoever they are, then it’s time to reject resumes. Not just the unlucky half, but all of them.

What would happen if the next time you are hiring, you ask for no resumes?

Provide some simple instructions as part of your job post. Ask for a cover letter, not a resume. Describe what you are looking for in the cover letter, and what you don’t want to see. This almost certainly means that you’ll need to do more interviews. Expect that. Spend that time having good conversations about the skills and qualities you are looking for, and give your applicants the chance to shine. Consider structured interviews and create a rubric for scoring them, to further reduce the impact of bias on your hiring.

Give it a try. Maybe you’ll find a way to a more diverse, talented workplace.